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Summary

In this episode, Adrienne Miller shares her deeply personal journey of adoption and her experiences as a birth mother. She reflects on her upbringing in a controlling and abusive environment, her education at BYU, and the societal pressures that influenced her decisions, including marriage and motherhood. Adrienne discusses the toxic relationships she encountered, the struggles with her mental health, and the coercive nature of her adoption experience, ultimately leading to a profound exploration of self-discovery and autonomy. In this conversation, Adrienne Miller shares her deeply personal journey through the adoption process, detailing her experiences as a birth mother. She discusses the emotional complexities of open adoption, the challenges faced during labor and delivery, and the aftermath of giving up her child. Adrienne reflects on the impact of her decisions, the dynamics within her family, and the ongoing trauma she experiences. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the realities of adoption beyond the commonly held perceptions of it being a purely positive experience.

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Read the Transcript:

Adrienne Miller (00:00)
Hi, welcome back to the show. I wanted to do an episode about my experience with adoption and being a birth mother. I have talked about it openly on a few different podcast episodes and on Instagram, but I really wanted to do a full episode dedicated to my experience with this. So it’s important to know that I was raised Mormon.

it’s important to know that I was raised in a really dysfunctional, abusive, toxic environment with really controlling parents, controlling religion, a controlling French Catholic school environment, and that I essentially grew up with my voice never really being heard and certainly not mattering in any kind of significant way.

By the time I was in grade 12, so I was 17, I have a really late December birthday, so I 17 and could not wait to get out of the house. Number one, to get away from my mom, but number two, you know, my parents had talked me into going to BYU, which is a Mormon university in Utah, because, you know, growing up, you’re not allowed to have non-Mormon friends, and so it’s really lonely. And then you get presented with this, you know, this dangled carrot in front of you of, there’s this university that has all Mormons. And so that sounds pretty great, right? So I missed my prom. I missed my graduation because school in the States starts earlier than in Canada. And I left I went to BYU Idaho first. They have a campus in Idaho for the summer and then and then went to BYU in Utah for the rest of my years in college. I remember our opening ceremony and the president of BYU saying I remember this so clearly. Boys you are here to become men to get an education to get a job to provide for your future family.

And girls, you are here to find that husband. Education was secondary for girls. Now, I’ll admit, this was, you know, in 2002, this was a while ago. Hopefully it’s changed. I have a sneaky suspicion though that it hasn’t. But that was my entire life, right? Like you are put on this earth to be a birthing vessel for God’s creations and his future children. You are not here to get an education, you are not here to be your own person, you are not here to be anything but a wife and a mother, and to be straight, and to be cis, and to be all the things that you’re told to be. I grew up with church leaders who would throw vases at the wall.

to shatter and then tell us that that’s what we would be like if we had sex before marriage. we could, know, Jesus could repair us and just like you could repair this vase with glue, but you’re always gonna have those cracks. You’re never gonna be whole again. Or, you know, they would chew up gum and then spit it out and be like, this is what it’s like to lose your virginity outside of wedlock. You can’t go back to being the perfect piece of gum before. Anyway.

This is all relevant, I promise. So masturbation was not allowed, bodies are really shameful, you’re born sinful and carnal, periods are gross, bodies are gross, body hair is gross, like all the typical societal things as well, just like on steroids though. So my parents never talked to us about anything, their whole thing was like, if we don’t talk about alcohol, it doesn’t exist. If you don’t talk about drugs, it doesn’t exist. If you don’t talk about sex, doesn’t exist, which like, okay. If we don’t talk about gays, they don’t exist, right? Like all of it. So I showed up at BYU and an innocent 17 year old just being like, my God, this is amazing. Like, first of all, it’s called Happy Valley for a reason. Everyone is like scary happy. Everyone’s the same. Most people I met had never even left the state of Utah or the states or like they left from their home state and came to Utah and that those are only two places they had ever been. Everyone was white, everyone’s skinny. There’s always the token like diversity people that they use sometimes on their marketing materials, but not really. And then they, of course, just stick to themselves because everyone else is like wild and interesting.

So I was having a great time. I kind of got to restart my journey of like life. No one knew who I was. I kind of did this like glow up and I was like, whoa, like getting asked out on dates left and right, which I had never had been growing up. So for a while there, like, I was like, this is amazing. I’m super happy. And this kind of goes back to my whenever people ask, like, were you happy? So with my capacity and being in the cult and not knowing what was outside of the cult, if you had asked me then for sure I was happy. Because that’s all that I knew, right? Like you, you don’t know you’re not free until you actually step outside of Plato’s cave, as it were. So I was having a great time. I was, you know, doing the righteous, faithful Mormon girl things. I wasn’t drinking. I wasn’t doing drugs. I was going to church. I was, you know, wearing my Mormon underwear, all of that. I got scarily close to graduation when our church leaders, so they’re called bishops, called me in and was like, you know, you’re not getting any younger. You’re gonna be a spinster if you graduate at 21 without being married. And then where are you gonna find a husband? So I was freaking out. My guy best friend had kind of been told the same thing. And so we were like, you know what? We should get married. And I, you know, went to him with like, hey, I’ve I come from like a really up and down situation. I really want something stable. He was like my rock that I would go to after breakups and in hindsight, we 100 % shouldn’t have gotten married. He was definitely in love with me. I was not in love with him, but I was like, this is what I need to do. I can do this. Like I don’t wanna be with someone who’s gonna break my heart. I’m obviously gonna go for the nice guy, the stable guy even if I’m not like in a space where I should even be getting married, let alone to someone that was like my safety. So 100 % that’s on me. Like I never ever pretend that like, okay, sure, the church and my parents influenced that decision, but I never ever pretend that I don’t take full accountability for getting married to someone that I shouldn’t have been getting married to. And even that day, at right before the altar, like with the wedding, in my brain I was like, Adrienne, is, I didn’t even give myself a second to be like, is this something that you want, right? It’s just, you’re told that this is what you want, you’re told to have the big wedding, it gets very exciting, you really wanna have sex, but you can’t do that unless you’re married, like, and I was ready to put my family behind and like start this life with my partner. So we did.

And within a year, I think, I was like, my God, this was a giant mistake, which I didn’t talk to him about. I didn’t know how to deal with conflict. He didn’t really know how to deal with conflict either. I avoided it at all costs because my entire life and upbringing was fighting and yelling and arguing. And so I just learned to suppress everything going on inside and learned to avoid difficult conversations and all of that.

I started work at an MLM, which I will share with you why I hate MLMs, essentially they prey on people and a lot of them come out of Utah, which makes sense because they essentially use the same language that they do to teach their missionaries when they go out to serve a mission and like convert people and use all these really manipulative tactics and guilt and like pray and exploit vulnerable people and blah, blah, blah.

I was working on the office end of it though, not as a seller. So I got to see the back end of bankruptcies and ruined marriages and ruined livelihoods and just the nastiest parts of the business. And I started becoming friends with people who were not so great, but they were really appealing to me because they weren’t living like a typical Mormon life. And so they were going out and drinking and having fun and having a really good time and not wearing their Mormon underwear. I like loved that idea. And for the first time was like, my gosh, I don’t have to listen to my parents and I don’t have to do what I’m told. And so I got into a really bad crowd. I separated from my husband. Then I got into a relationship with my boss who said he was also separated and divorcing his wife, which turned out not to be true. But he was so supremely toxic and abusive and manipulative and narcissistic and charming and just, I cannot explain to you how exploited I was in that relationship. Again, I made conscious decisions. So again, not to absolve myself of any responsibility or accountability, but I was being fed many, many lies. I was being psychologically abused and manipulated and just tortured. And so I got divorced in the midst of all this, this relationship with this other person I moved out. Anyway, he said, you know, let’s have a baby. Let’s leave this Utah. Let’s leave the church. Let’s go like build this life together. And I was like, amazing like this would be great. I can’t this exciting. I like was thrilled We got pregnant he immediately started showing his colors and I getting pregnant kind of snapped me into this other reality of like now I have this child to care for is this cut the kind of environment that I want him to be in and I remember the most like the catalyst kind of moment, he had, we had gotten in this big fight. Again, my fault, everything was my fault, blah, blah. I, sorry, let me back up a second. his wife, I found out that he was still in a relationship with his wife and that nothing had changed. They had three kids, they were like, this family, she was like, what are you talking about? So she called me, met with me, and to this day I remember it like we met alone in a park and I’m like, oh my gosh, she 100 % could have murdered me. But she didn’t. Anyway, she gave me a hug and then she brought us both back to their house and he was there and she’s like, okay, choose, like between me and her right now. And I was like, whoa, whoa, like I actually don’t want to be a part of this. I had no idea that all this lying was going on, there was so much chaos and like yelling and fighting and I was like, no, no, no, like count me out. Like I’m leaving. They were asking me about like when my appointments were and who my doctor was and I was kind of getting like this weird vibe. So I lied and and they were like, are you going to this one? I was like, yeah, yeah, that’s it.

Then I get a message like a day later and they’re both on the phone. They’re like, so we called, we pretended we were you, we used your birthday and they told us that you’re not actually a patient there, blah, blah, like crazy things. And they’re like, why did you lie? Are you actually pregnant? And I was like, my God, like I have to get out of here. And so I was back at my apartment. I went to take a bath.

I turned off my phone, I put in my headphones, I come out an hour later to like a zillion voicemails. And the first one was like, hey, what’s up? Like, why aren’t you answering your phone? And then it’s like, from him, hey, like you haven’t called me back. And then like 50 messages in, I swear it went from like zero to the Hulk and it’s like, “You fucking bitch, like I’m gonna come after you. I’m gonna get that child if you ever show your face again…”, like life threatening messages. So it went from his normal self as he was. And because I had come out of the bath and was able to see it escalate in voicemails the way that it did and being pregnant, I was like, my God I have to get out of here, like he’s actually going to kill me. And it was just such a blessing in disguise that I was able to see how controlling he was and abusive he was and like scary he was because it went like it was just such a good I threw the SIM card away. I kind of wish I would have kept it for evidence. But anyway, I was able to see so clearly what I was into and how I didn’t want my kid around that at all. And she’s like screaming in the background, like just absolute chaos. So I call my parents, I tell them the situation. They fly over and come sit on the couch and they’re like, okay, so we have a family that you’re gonna give this baby to. So like zero conversation, they were like we’re not gonna talk about the A word, like they can’t even say the word abortion, cause that’s murder. And then of course you can’t raise this baby by yourself because you need a father in the picture and the father has to be like a righteous Mormon guy because you have to have the priesthood, which is like this ridiculous made up Mormon power that they get from God, but only men can have it and blah, blah, blah. And besides like who would wanna, what self-respecting man would wanna marry you and raise a child that isn’t his own. So like you’re just killing your prospects for marriage. So that’s kind of how the non-conversation went. And then, you my mom’s journal was open on the table. I remember when she was doing something and I read it and it was like, I can’t believe Adrienne would do this to me. Like this is so heartbreaking. And just, of course she’s like the victim, always the victim, but completely made it about herself. And she’s like, I’m so glad I was able to go to the temple and find peace and like amidst all of this hardship like blah blah blah anyway so I my mom flies home my dad and I drive back home in the like dead of night kind of scenario like I’m rushing and packing up my car it’s actually amazing that I didn’t have a miscarriage during this time I was so stressed and so emotionally unstable and so just like not prepared to have a child and in such a state. I think about that all the time that it’s like the odds that I didn’t have a miscarriage are so low. I think in my opinion anyway, we came back home. So again, I’m pregnant. I’m hormonal. I’ve just left this life threatening abusive relationship. I’m back at home with my parents in the basement in this terrible childhood dynamic that I reverted back to. They call the couple, they come to dinner, my dad’s like, here you go, like here’s my daughter who’s gonna give you this baby. And I am like, okay, yeah, I guess this is what’s happening because remember, my entire life I had no choice, like zero option in how I was living my life. And so here I am, this kid who had barely gone off with some semblance of independence in my life, immediately thrown back into a terrible scenario. So I had kind of gone and been like, wow, that was, I’m such a failure. I got the chance to be independent and all I did was end up pregnant and unmarried and in an abusive relationship. Clearly I’m not capable of managing my own life or making my own decisions. And kind of just fulfilling this prophecy that you know, I felt like I had been told my whole life. So the couple was lovely. They brought me flowers. They were all smiles. They were very charming. And the typical nice Mormon couple, of course.

They had struggled with infertility. This had kind of come as like a blessing for their faithfulness and their steadfastness and all part of God’s plan. I had been told by my bishop and church leader a few things. So one, he was like, okay, you’re not allowed to go to the ward, which is like the parish, the group, whatever, with kids, people your age, because they’re gonna see you pregnant and we don’t want them to think that that’s okay. So you have to stay in this like, where your family is, where it’s just like families and old people and married people, whatever. So they have special wards for single adults, young single adults, so that you can, you know, of course, meet each other and get married. But anyway, I was banished, not allowed to be a part of that community, so they cut me off from that community as Mormons do, right? They don’t want you in a community that’s actually helpful and the bishop of this family ward. So I’m like the shameful, like I’m actually kind of surprised my parents didn’t send me away for nine months to have this baby. But anyway, I’m sure if there was a family willing to take me, they probably would have. But anyway, I’m in this, this ward with them and the bishop calls me in and two things happen. So one, I had to have a disciplinary counsel, which is when you get in trouble for doing bad things in the Mormon church. It was with three middle-aged men, straight white men, who sit there and ask you to tell them every disgusting detail about your affair and your adultery. And now remember, I had been doing this from the time I was 12 years old. Mormon parents send their kids in to meet with the bishop alone, a 12-year-old girl alone, where he then gets to say, okay, who touched you? Where did he touch you? When did he take off your clothes? you know describe in detail the scenario? What did you do? What did you not do? Like total sexual abuse, but because it’s in the church in a Christian church for some reason, we’re allowed to do that. and don’t worry. My mom informed me that now an extra adult is allowed in so there’s a witness so it’s not so bad. That’s the progress that Mormon Church is making.

Anyway, I was totally used to this. So the fact that I came in as an adult, as a pregnant adult woman and had to do this, it was completely normal for me. So I sat there with these three men and told them about how often we had sex and where and in what ways and in what positions and just every detail about it, reliving this trauma and I’m not the victim, of course. I’m the adulterer. I’m the person who broke up their family. I’m the person who, you know, was never exploited. I’m like the sinful, scarlet letter kind of person. Anyway, had that experience. I also had to meet with the bishop like on a regular basis to prove that I was being a good person now and being a good Mormon so that he could let me back in the church. He told me that giving my baby to this more faithful and righteous couple was how I was going to redeem my soul from hell. Because of what I had done, I was given a book called The Sin Next to Murder, which is a terrible book that most girls, promiscuous girls in the church are given, and it’s about adultery and sex outside of marriage. So if you have sex outside of marriage, you’re the same as a murderer because it’s that sin is the same as murder.

So I, as a vulnerable, young, pregnant woman, believed that I was the same as a murderer and that the only way out of the situation was to give my baby to this couple. Did someone have a gun to my head? No. Can you see, though, the implicit and explicit messaging that I had grown up with my entire life from both my parents and the church and reinforced at school that I didn’t have and was not to have my consent honoured or any bodily autonomy, which that whole system just reinforces that, that I would be led to believe that adoption was my only way, my only way forward, my only choice. Like, of course, that is what I was coerced into doing. I have no qualms about saying that I had to endure a forced pregnancy.

Based on my upbringing, my culture, my belief system, my programming, my conditioning, all of that, my circumstances. Okay, so I’m in this scenario, the couple comes to the ultrasounds, I’m feeling really great about myself because I’m getting love from people, right? So there’s that huge issue. I’m getting two people who are very interested in my life who are treating me like gold, who seemingly love and appreciate me. Something I didn’t get at home, something I rarely got from friends. I was bullied my entire life. So take this person who has huge self-esteem issues and hook them up with any love whatsoever. It’s why I endured so many abusive relationships.

I was thrilled to have these people who I thought were genuine, know, genuinely wanted to be my friends and they were coming to the appointments. They were so lovely. I was like, like I have real, this is real love and real friends. And this is amazing. You know, I’m going to give my baby to these people and everyone’s praising me. Strangers are like, my gosh, like, I can’t believe you’re doing this. You’re such a brave person.

I’m getting complimented left and right. I’m getting, you know, just verbal words of affirmation about how wonderful of a person I am coming from someone who had been entirely degraded and humiliated and not a drop of self dignity or self esteem. So I’m in a pretty great place. Thinking that this is going to solve all my problems because I was also told, you know, that God had lined this up. He knew I was going to do this. He knew that the adopting couple were gonna be infertile and so he like perfectly, cause God’s plan is always perfect, right? God’s Plan. Drake is the worst. eight-ish, seven-ish months in. So I’m working downtown. My dad works downtown. I got a job with the government and we drive home together. We have lunch together, whatever.

This is the part that I need to tell you about how awful my mom is. So my parents got married not knowing a thing about each other and they were engaged I think after six weeks of dating. They weren’t allowed to be on birth control. They 100 % not only weren’t ready to have kids but when I think about it now, I’m pretty sure didn’t even want to have kids, which they would never admit to, but certainly not my mom. She 100 % had postpartum depression that went undiagnosed. She had a really questionable childhood as well, as did my dad. They both had not great upbringings, lots of trauma, unresolved trauma. There was religious abuse in my dad’s life when he was a choir boy that he won’t talk about. Many, many things to add to this dysfunctional relationship and marriage and setup for two people that should not have had kids. Anyway, they had four kids within like eight years. My dad was not only a lawyer, a young lawyer, and in law school, whatever, he also was then called to be a bishop, which is essentially like, 30 plus hours a week of unpaid labor. He was never home. My mom resented that, she was not doing well. She also had to give everything to the church and give all of her time and effort and resources. So no one’s needs were being met in this scenario. No one was getting very much love. No one was regulated. No one was doing well. Add four kids to the mix that exponentially skyrockets.

She resented me so much. One, I assume because I came out a Sagittarius. It’s possible I didn’t, but she just did not know how to deal with kids who… No, with kids. Did not know how to deal with being triggered, any of that. My dad and I get along really well. I just like have always butted heads with my mom. She forbade daddy-daughter dates once we started getting along. Essentially, he loved the kids and didn’t love her, and she just projected that anger and resentment onto the kids. Mostly the two older kids. The two younger kids were peacemakers, were kind of spoiled. They didn’t get the roughest parts of my parents’ marriage breakdown.

They kind of got the, once my parents accepted that this is just how it was gonna be, then it diffused kind of, and then they made more money, and then they just kind of started living these parallel lives compared to when my older brother and I were young. She would do things like I would run away from home and my dad would come home from work and be like, where’s Adrienne? She’d be like, I don’t know, she’d be gone for hours. She ran away a long time ago.

As he’d head out the door, she’d be like, you need to choose right now between her or me. And if you choose her, we’re getting a divorce. And she would tell my whole, she told the whole ward that I was the other woman in their marriage, that my dad and I were involved in an incestual relationship. Many, many, many things that are shocking, not shocking to me anymore when I think back on it.

Anyway, in the elevator one day when we’re leaving work and I am, like I said mid pregnancy. My dad is like, hey, mom says you’re out of the house or she’s getting a divorce. And I am again, just like shocked, not shocked, super hurt obviously.

But not surprised she pulls stunts like this all the time. So I don’t know if it’s because she knows that we’re like, you know, we drive into work together, we come home from work together. I don’t know if it’s because I’m in the home and like she really started getting more more threatened when I went through puberty and like grew boobs and started wearing makeup and started being pretty. She was always a tomboy and she would always be like, ugh, you’re so much prettier than I was when I was a kid. Like we call them complinsults from the show Community where it’s like a compliment and an insult at the same time. She’s queen of those. So she’s hated me from as long as I can remember. I have no positive memories with my mom whatsoever. I have very little childhood, positive childhood memories in general, but certainly not with her. All of my memories with her are yelling, silent treatment, gaslighting, manipulation, all of it. When I was 16, she wrote my brother and I a letter saying that she was no longer our mom, that she would be our nanny and do things for us like go grocery shopping and cook, but that she was absolving herself of all emotional responsibility toward us whatsoever. So things like that.

So I get kicked out of my house during a pregnancy where I am to give up my baby and I end up in an apartment alone completely spiral into suicidal ideations. No one knew. I would just come home and cry. I binged a bunch of shows.

Gilmore Girls was the one that stands out, which I now hate because it’s so problematic, just like Friends and all those other shows that just do not hold up well, which is really disappointing. Anyway, that was rough.

about a month before… the only reason why I stayed alive was out of guilt toward these parents. I was like, if I die, my baby dies and I can’t give them this baby and I don’t… That’s like really embarrassing. Like how I can’t let them down like that. So it didn’t even matter that it was my life. It was, I have to stay alive to give this baby to this couple because I don’t want to disappoint them. And I am such a people pleaser that that would be worse than death, apparently. So I call the Mormon Church adoption liaison for the province, for British Columbia at the time, which doesn’t exist anymore. Thank God that has been dissolved. But at the time, she was that person. I was like, hey, she’s like a nice person.

I go live with her, which makes my mom immediately like jealous and she loses it. and when I move out, by the way, she is like, here, Adrienne, here’s a box of like kitchen stuff and lamps and things to like furniture, furnish your apartment. So again, that’s the kind of person that she is, right? Like, I’m going to kick you out. You’re going to be super depressed and suicidal, but here’s a box of stuff because I’m so nice and like, I’m such a good mom. And even though you’re the worst, I’m doing this for you because you know I care about you so much. So anyway lots of mind fuckery going on. we have a meeting at the adoption agency with me and the couple but before that I want to back up and just say my dad was at the adoption meeting, the first one, I never had a meeting with them alone, which I feel like should be illegal. So he was telling them what was gonna happen, who I was gonna give my baby to, whatever. And they, I never met with them alone. I was never asked if this was something that I really wanted. I was never given like, therapy, I feel like counseling and therapy should be mandatory before you give up a baby, not just like suggested, which I don’t even remember them suggesting they may have. I was not in the right state of mind to do that. But at 100 % should be paid for, available and like mandatory in my opinion. Anyway, we have our last meeting before the birth and this is to kind of go over like what the birth plan is gonna be. Are they gonna be invited? Are they gonna be in the room? What’s gonna happen? Who’s gonna call who? All of that. The mom brings this document that describes, so mine is kind of like, yeah, sure, I’d love to them in the room, but like I’ll let you know like how I’m feeling at the time and we’ll do this placement and blah, blah, blah. It’s like really simple. They bring a birth plan. The mom presents it to me and it outlines in,

horrific detail how many emails are gonna be sent from like these ages to this this age and how many pictures and like how often we’re gonna meet and phone calls like So so detailed and in that moment. I was like, my god this is not the carefree natural organic relationship that I thought it was gonna be this is going to be a heavily curated, completely inorganic, like compulsory relationship. This is a transaction. And I was not in a space to like change my mind or like that it didn’t even occur to me that that was an option. Because one people please are too soul going to hell. So like, I was not in a place where I thought I could even entertain the idea of going back on this. But I, that was the first indication that I got that like, this is not actually what I signed up for. We had agreed to an open adoption. but I kind of was like, yeah, we’re just going to like build a real friendship because I thought that’s what we had been doing during the pregnancy. I thought that this was real. And that was the first indication that I had of like, this is like a business deal.

This is something, this is a contractual, something that we’re gonna be held to and it is more obligatory than anything. So I move in with this mom and her family, the adoption liaison and she’s wonderful and my sibling comes like a week or so before the pregnancy, because I was like, I need to have someone there.

and I am like super, super overdue and just ready for this to happen. I go into labor at night. The adoption liaison came with me. I got a note, by the way, saying,

The social worker only works Monday to Friday, nine to five, and I went into labor on a weekend. So apparently I don’t get to have a social worker because I was supposed to plan my birth for when her work hours were. So that was awesome. I labored through the night.

And then as soon as the sun started to come up, my body was ready to push. It was silent. I didn’t get an epidural. I wanted to do everything natural because I was ridiculously brainwashed into thinking that that was better for me. The doctors and nurses, like you could hear a pin drop and they were all like in tears and just like we have never heard something.

so quiet and like he came out and the sun burst through the window and I just sort of like it was so warm and I remember thinking like how amazing so like you’re pumped full of adrenaline right and I was like this is fantastic like this is the best feeling ever I looking back on it now and looking back at my other three births since then which have all been silent.

I dissociate during trauma and I dissociate during pain and I was not there and that’s how I deal with pain is I completely dissociate and am able to handle so much pain. I think about my experiences with rape and sexual assault and I did the same thing and so while I was getting applauded and like, you know, honoured, for being able to handle this so well and so silently is actually a trauma response and coping mechanism. Whew, okay. I decided not to call them when I went into labor. I didn’t want them there. I just leaned into what my body was feeling. I didn’t call them when he was born and I just, yeah, they weren’t there.

and that was great. I remember the nurse telling me, yeah, so then my sibling fainted right away with all the smells and everything. That was great. And they played me videos, funny videos of like, you know, when Dwight pushes out the watermelon in the office, like things like that. was just, anyway. Okay.

I, how was I feeling? So I was full of adrenaline. I forgot this part. about like a couple weeks earlier, I had sent an email to my family being like, hey, mom’s not invited to the hospital. She kicked me out of the house. I haven’t spoken to her since. She hasn’t spoken to me since. It was really hurtful. Please do not, like you are invited to the hospital. Please come. You’re invited for the adoption placement. Your mother’s not in my.

Our mother’s not invited. She’s been really disrespectful this whole time. She threatened the divorce. When you come to the hospital, please don’t let her know that I have had the baby, because she will show up uninvited and manipulate her way into the room. I got an email message back from every single one of them saying, sorry, no can do. Like, no mom, no us.

I lost it. I sent an email back to all of them being like, screw you guys. You have no idea what it’s like to give up your baby. And I cannot believe you’re not here for me during this. like just a hundred percent guilt trip them into like exposing mom and all these things that she had done and how unfair it was of them to do this to me and how rejected I felt and everything. And then they eventually agreed and kind of like, crawled their way back into coming. And because I was so full of adrenaline, I was like, dad, who cares? Like, yeah, my dad refused to come too unless my mom was invited because he said, you know, he had to choose his marriage again. And he was like, well, okay, can mom come? And I was like, yeah, I don’t care. Like, I’m just so happy I’m on cloud nine, like full of happy hormones, which was a giant mistake. But that’s what I said, because I really wanted my dad there. So they all come. I have the adopting couple. the nurses were like, don’t breastfeed. You’re going to bond with the baby. And so I didn’t. And I had the couple come. The dad is photographer, so we took some beautiful photos. And it was just the three of us in the room. And then I said, OK, I’m going to spend some time, and then I’ll come down.

I spent some time just like staring at him and smiling at him and really wanting to keep him. But everyone had showed up, like my family had showed up, their family had showed up, they were waiting for this baby.

And totally, I imagine they were going through a lot too and like wondering if I was gonna change my mind. I think in BC you get 30 days and so I’m sure for 30 days their life was hell. As was mine. That was like so excruciating but I was like, God has like blessed us with this.

great birth and labor and the sun and like this is totally what I meant to do. So I walked down to, I shower and put makeup on, which is ridiculous. And then I walked down to the like, I don’t know, I don’t think it was a chapel, some room that they put us in. And I said a few words, like my sister-in-law played the piano. We did like all this Mormon mumbo jumbo with prayer and

then my dad was in charge of giving him a blessing, which is like, you know, priesthood power thing. So I’m holding the baby. The men are invited to stand in the circle, of course, and they like, they do this thing where they put their hand on their shoulder and then they put their other hand holding the baby underneath or whatever. And my dad, you know, says these beautiful words and it’s all lovely and good. And then,

I give my baby and it’s like my heart and soul are ripped out of my body, but I’m really good at suppressing and I’m really good at masking. And so I just smile and of course they give me a hug and they’re like, thank you so much. love you so much. We walk out of the room. I turn around, they’re all surrounding.

They’re all surrounding the couple and the baby and smiling and just crying tears of joy. And I realized in that moment that I am immediately forgotten. And like, this was all about getting what they wanted and getting my baby. And I am an afterthought. And I was a vessel to make that happen. No one like looked up to see me walk away.

No one like it was now again, okay, 100%. This is my perspective. Of course, they might disagree with me completely. I’m sure they disagree with a lot of things that I say, but this is my reality and my truth. And I left that hospital alone. You know, my family who isn’t really family in the sense that like no one in my family really ever gave a shit about me nor do they now but I left those that wing being like so empty and feeling like okay well this is it like they have what they wanted they got what they wanted and I’m left literally in the dust and like just I don’t know how else to explain it. Anyway we went back to the adoption liaison to her house for a brunch and my mom took off and that whole day became about finding my mom, because she was so hurt that she wasn’t invited into the hospital room and she was so hurt and embarrassed that this liaison was and I just like.

Of course, that’s what she did. So it was a whole brunch. Everyone was like, where’s mom? Where’d she go? Oh, she left. She just walked out the door and started walking. Oh, has anyone seen her? How long has it been? It’s been two hours. We should go out look for her. And that she did the same thing on my wedding day. It was all about her. I stayed at that house a little while longer and didn’t cry, I didn’t feel any of my feelings. just like, my milk came in and went and I told my sibling, look, I gotta get out of here. Like, I just can’t handle this. So we went to Europe and we just, you know, went from hostel to hostel through Europe and I remember thinking at the time like, having a baby is a hard look. Like I’m healing so fast, which is so funny. Anyway, body’s back to normal right away. And you know, I got their scheduled emails and their scheduled phone calls and photos and whatever. And I was completely distracting myself with my sibling and having a great time and meeting people and we did a bunch of Mormony crap and just was like a like it had never happened almost like I just got to this place where I was like okay well moving on like chapter closed I was dating again almost immediately in that summer like I just showed up to that young single adult ward with a skinny body and no baby and met people that I had never met and introduced myself and didn’t tell anyone that I had just given up a baby and life was grand. Then I re-met my current husband that fall, okay, so listen to how messed up this is. Gave up a baby in May, that October-ish, November-ish, I started talking to Joe, my current husband. So we had grown up together, went to the same high school, went to the same church, same seminary. Like we have known each other for very long time as have our parents. We live a couple of blocks away. he was in my brother’s grade. They were really good friends. So we’ve known each other. I’ve been invisible. He was the most popular guy at school, captain of the basketball team, skateboarder, like had a great car, super hot.

So I was like, my gosh, this guy even wants to talk to me. This is amazing. So our relationship started from a very poor place. But again, everyone was like, God brought you two together. So his wife had cheated on him for years. He was newly getting divorced. I had just given up a baby, was newly divorced. And voila, what are the odds that the two of us would be in a similar life situation, ready to get married, both living at our parents’ houses at the same time, like so wild. Is it though, is it that wild when you’re only allowed to marry other Mormon people and there are hardly any Mormons in Vancouver? Like, is it? I don’t know. So anyway, we start dating almost immediately and we both are like super into each other. We have similar life experiences in the sense that we come from really hard, like a really hard past few years. We’re ready to move on. We’re ready to close those doors. We are ready to get married, to have our own family, to like move on with our lives. That’s what happens. We are married within a year and I am kind of like, okay, great.

This fills the hole in my heart. I’m gonna have my own kids. And this relationship with the adoption, you know, really takes the pressure off of them because I had, while I was living in the same city as them, been reaching out and like, hey, do you guys wanna come watch the hockey playoffs? Do you guys, like, let’s do this. And kind of immediately was met with, yeah, we don’t do like spontaneous meetups with you. We do the scheduled plan.

like we have our visits and that’s what we’re sticking to. It’s too much anxiety for the mom. Anyway, I moved to the island with Joe. We start our own family. This is the dad’s hometown so eventually they move as well so now we’re in the same city again.

And so I’m not going to talk about the whole 15 years, but essentially we have had very scheduled supervised visits for 15 years. It has been very inorganic. I’ve been able to talk to the dad openly for those 15 years and just share the truth about everything that I’ve been feeling. I’ve never been able to do that with the mom. She a hundred percent has her own trauma, her own things that she’s dealing with, her own conditions, her own feelings, experience with infertility, like tons of stuff, totally. I don’t know what it’s like to be an adopting mom, so I can’t speak for that. I can speak though for my lived experience, as seeing someone with so much fear and anxiety try to control so much and being at the complete mercy of these adopting parents at the drop of a hat, they can decide that that relationship is closed. Only a couple years ago did the information come out from the dad that the mom never wanted in an open adoption in the first place, which I cannot tell you the hurt and anger that I feel from that because the whole premise of me giving them this baby was under the guise that we wanted an open adoption. And to find out that I was deceived into giving someone my life and blood based on a lie is supremely heartbreaking.

The hilarious, no. Yeah, it’s hilarious. I don’t know if you have a dark sense of humor like I do, but we both have since left the church, but the only reason why I gave them my baby was because of the church. So it’s actually kind of funny that like the whole reason. So, okay, you have to understand that when you, okay.

We get married here on earth as Mormons, but we also get married in the temple where we’re married like in heaven, so eternally. So our earthly paper marriage will end, it’ll end with death, but we get, it’s called getting sealed. So we get sealed to each other, which is like this eternal bond. We also get sealed to Christ. So your marriage is this triangle relationship between you and your husband and God and you get sealed into what’s called the family of Christ. Like we’re all sealed together for time and all eternity. And if I had my baby and he died, he would not be sealed. He wouldn’t be sealed to me. He wouldn’t be sealed to God. We would just lose him forever. And I would lose him and he just, I don’t know, whatever would cease to exist. But because the couple was righteous and they were sealed and the dad held the, you know, church authority and priesthood power and they were sealed to the family of Christ, I could give them my baby, that baby could get sealed to them and get sealed into the family of Christ. So this whole belief system, the premise for which I gave them this baby ceases to exist because neither one of us go to church and they don’t give a crap about their like temple covenant belief stuff and neither do I. So it’s like kind of hilarious. and super sad, obviously. Anyway, there is so much pain and heartbreak. I cannot explain to you the trauma that continues. I still go to therapy for it. I’m still not okay. I still, have had chats with them about how much power they hold and how they have such an ability to help me heal.

from this by allowing like a true relationship to happen and how they keep that from me. And those conversations did not go over well. And I am always at the risk of them taking him away completely, even from doing things like this, from telling my story for a long time. I didn’t share anything publicly. I didn’t talk about it online. I didn’t write about it. didn’t for fear of like, oh, well, what if they hear me say that? What if they see something I’ve written in like an adoption magazine or for the website or any of that and then decide, like, you know, get pissed and go, my God, I can’t believe she’s saying these things. Yeah, you can’t have access to our kid anymore, which is like a super toxic, unhealthy, one-sided relationship.

Anyway, they kind of stand with like, we intentionally plan these things to show you that we prioritize you, this means that we care about you, da, da, da. My reality and truth is that it is a fear-based relationship and that everything in his life seems very controlled, from what I can see on the outside and I’m just a part of that. I also carry, my gosh, you guys, Kate, I know this podcast episode is so long, but there’s so much to talk about. About a year in, I got a call from this woman who was like, hey, I want to give up my baby also. I’m thinking about giving up my baby and this couple’s name came up and I wanted to talk to you about your experience with them. And this was early on and I was like, my gosh, do it. They’re the most amazing couple. Like I’m so glad that I did. And that is a decision that I have to live with for the rest of my life. Not only convincing this poor woman to give up her baby for adoption in general, but convincing her to give up this baby to a couple that said they wanted an open adoption. And I, you know, will have that with me for the rest of my life. This huge regret, something that has affected several lives. So adoption, like I wish people would understand, it is not just a one person thing. Like it is, has a ripple effect and it affects people’s lives in ways that you cannot even imagine. Now, obviously some people that will be a good thing. It will affect people’s lives for the better in a number of ways. That’s just not always the case. And this is my lived experience. It’s why I’m so vocal about choice and body choice.

And I talk about all the dark and gross parts of adoption because everyone only ever wants to talk about how good it is and what a blessing it is and what a sacrifice it is and what a selfless deed it is and yada yada yada, that’s great, but it’s not just sunshine and rainbows. And it’s really important to me that people understand that and that they understand how horrible the Mormon church is and how much of an influence they have over people’s bodies. not even getting into transracial adoptions and the money that is made from that and the cultural white supremacist colonial disgusting part of the adoption world that that is. Which is not my experience but that’s something to look into for sure because it is so horrific.

But anyway, I could share many, many, many things. I just wanted to share that story, that history. I wanted to share that my kids have a half brother that they don’t know from any other kid. Like, there is no relationship there. There are 11 cousins in our family and it would be the most natural thing in the world for those two kids to be added to that and to have these extra relationships and have closeness with half siblings and with me. I am like a great person and a super fun aunt and a loving aunt and a caring aunt and it is so painful to me that that additional, those additional loving relationships are like prohibited.

And they’ll say that they’re not because we see them and we know them and blah, blah. But like, I know little to nothing in real life, like not just, yeah, like love sports, but like really know things, right? Or have bonding memories or experiences or like anything like that. I am not invited to things. Like birthdays. It is just so painful.

I also wanted to point out that when I was teaching here, I was a French teacher and I was doing some substitution work. There are a limited number of schools, just a handful of French schools here and I was, you know, get bounced around every morning. You call it 7.30, say, where am I going? They tell you where you’re going. One day I ended up at this elementary school and I saw his sibling.

And she was like, oh my God, hi. And I was like, hey, I’m just teaching here for the day. And then I got a call from the parents and we had this meeting and they said, how dare you work there without telling us you didn’t even call us to let us know. Like immediately attacked and just like, how could you do this to us? And I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let’s back up. Like this is my job.

we’re only, I don’t even want this job. We’re having to do it because Joe quit his job to start his own business and I had just had a baby and I like this, I’m rushing home between classes and at lunchtime to breastfeed my baby. Like this is a terrible situation and you’re coming at me with something. I didn’t even know we went to that school and they’re like, we told you. And I’m like, yeah, that was like years ago before I even had kids. Like I didn’t know what school this was or like anyway.

First of all, ADHD, don’t remember a thing. Second of all, it wasn’t even my realm of like comprehension. I wasn’t even teaching his class. Anyway, they say, okay, well, I guess like if you’re not prepared to quit, we are gonna move 3,000 miles away across the country to be with her side of the family. So these are the type of ultimatums that I have been forced to deal with, real power moves, real like oppression scare tactics. From their point of view, it’s what’s in best interest for the child, which they will always have that card to play. They will always have that power, that authority to dominate the relationship, to dictate the relationship, to cut off the relationship. So I just want to talk for a moment about natural intrinsic power imbalance that exists. So number one, the adoptee has the least voice in adoption, right? They didn’t get to choose what family they went to, who to go to, like any of that. They have the least choice. Birth mothers have parents, birth people have the second to least amount of power in this scenario. Adopting parents have the most amount of power once they legally get the child. They get to decide everything about how the child is raised, where they live, how often the visits are, like every single aspect of the relationship, how much information they want to divulge, photos, like all of it. And they can change all of that at the drop of a hat, which is a very vulnerable place to be in on.

my end of things, you are at the mercy of someone else’s decision, someone else’s fear, someone else’s anxiety, someone else’s trauma, unresolved, unprocessed issues, all of that. You can hope that they will do what’s in the best interest for the child, but it’s subjective. Everyone has their own opinion, their own truths, their own reality, their own way of seeing things. So again.

this is just my life story, this is just my life perspective. I’m not even saying that I’m right or that they don’t have a different perspective or one that’s equally as valid. Because I’m not them. So they’re free to share that. This is just how my experience has been as a birth monitor. And it’s really important to me that people hear that and that they hear that adoption is not just this wonderful, amazing thing every single time and that every single story is the same and that every single birth mother feels a certain way. This is how I feel. It might not be how other people feel and that’s fine. This is my podcast, my story, my truth. So I kept hearing that I would be fine, that I would heal, that the grief would pass, that the pain would pass, that it would get better over time. It has not.

I only found out last year after talking to my mom, she said that when I brought up, like you’re the one that threatened dad with divorce and kicked me out of the house. And she was like, I never said that. So now I have to grapple with which one of my parents is lying to me. And she also said that my dad got really mad at her for not taking the baby because he wanted her to raise the baby, which I had never heard.

Who’s more likely to lie to me? Probably my mom. But at this point, honestly, who knows? So it like, it’s a lot of trauma to deal with. I’m still forever connected to that, my abuser. That’s really hard. It’s really hard that my son looks exactly like him and that that is really triggering for me, but I still want a relationship with him. It’s really triggering to me to think of the fact that his dad is…

honestly really scary and could at any point come find us or me or him. I still have to deal with the questions that my son is going to have for me and have to grapple with that. Like it just it doesn’t end at the hospital. Okay, so I need people to understand that. Okay, that was a lot. I’m going to stop talking.

There is so much more to share and I have grappled with the idea of writing a book kind of about my entire life, but this would be a lot of chapters in it. I feel like it would burn a lot of bridges that I’m not prepared to burn. Maybe it’ll be something that I release upon my death or something. have you guys heard of funeral crashers. love this idea so there are people that you hire to come to your funeral and just like roast all these people that you have been wanting to like just say and they just say all the things that you’ve been wanting to say. Anyway I think that’s a great idea. Okay ADHDing. That’s all I want to say. I’m sorry I want to say a lot more but I’m not going to.