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Summary

In this conversation, Dana, a microplastics researcher, discusses the pervasive issue of microplastics in our environment and their impact on human health. She highlights the lack of regulations surrounding microplastics, the various sources of exposure in daily life, and practical tips for reducing exposure. Dana emphasizes the importance of demanding regulatory changes and the role of consumer choices in addressing the microplastics crisis. The conversation also touches on the presence of microplastics in food and water, the ocean’s pollution crisis, and budget-friendly sustainable choices for families.

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Read the Transcript:

Adrienne (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. I have Dana on, we’re so happy to have you. Can you please just take a moment and tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do and why you’re here?

Dana (00:10)
Hi, thanks for having me. I’m a microplastics researcher. currently doing my master’s thesis on environmental science and I’m my master’s thesis and research on microplastics. I primarily work on identification of microplastics and weather samples, but I also am very interested in the microplastics effect on the environment as well as human health.
I also like to read if there are any regulations on microplastic because it’s a huge topic as well. Yeah. And I also realized that the topic is like understudied and kind of underlooked. So at least when I started doing my research, there weren’t a lot of people who were talking about this. Of course, this year there are more and more people because we have more and more papers that are coming up.
But in general, when I started my content, there weren’t a lot of people talking about the microplastics pollution and microplastics problem as well, especially from the science side. And yeah, last year I started creating my content, creating like educational videos with the tips and just the facts that I learned about microplastics. Yeah, that’s basically it.

Adrienne (01:10)
Well, yeah. So how big of a deal is this? Because I know sometimes things can get sensationalized or there can be a lot of fear mongering. There’s fake news all the time. So when in your research and your discoveries and your studies, all of that, how big of a deal are microplastics in our environment?

Dana (01:50)
I really don’t cause any fear and stress, but for me as a person who studies and reads about it on a daily basis, for me, of course, I could be bit biased, but I would say that microplastic is an issue, a global one, because plastic gets produced without any regulations and for the microplastic we don’t have proper regulations as well.
We have some here and there, but it’s of course not enough. Another thing about microplastics and plastic in general is how this topic is very new, how the material itself is quite new because it’s been introduced like 80, 90 years ago.
For the microplastics, the research has been around maybe for 15 or 20 years. And for science, it’s also something that just kind of started. So you’ll have a lot of unknowns when it comes to microplastics. But even with those unknowns, we still have a lot of data to already prove that we need more global approach to solve this issue.

Adrienne (02:48)
Where have you found microplastics to be in our everyday kind of environments and have there been any places that have really surprised you?

Dana (03:16)
So when it comes to like our daily consumption of microplastics, so it’s almost everywhere. I mean, it was found even in the air. It was found in the water. Yeah, basically almost everywhere. It’s already in our bodies, in our blood, in our lungs, in our almost every organ. And it’s quite concerning, of course. When it comes to daily products, usually, so when I think of the tips,

on how

to avoid microplastics, I usually highlight three areas of exposure, which first is everything that deals with food and kitchen. So if you have any plastic utensils, plastic containers, especially those that are exposed to heat, because heat makes plastic degrade faster into more and more microplastics, I would try and avoid that first. So we’re thinking to switch to
wooden utensils or like wooden chopping boards or something, metals and stuff like that, or glass, stuff like this. Because obviously they don’t have microplastics. So a second area is our bathroom. So also a lot of personal care products, they have microplastics as an ingredient, not only the packaging itself.

but they use microplastics as an ingredient. And when I first learned about this, was like, how it’s possible? Like, me, like plastic is, I start to imagine like plastic from plastic, microplastics from like plastic bottles or like plastic bags, how it’s possible to be put in something like, you know, soft and creams and stuff like that. But when I started working with pure microplastics, for my research, which is not dealt with any makeup or skincare, but it’s just we have this microplastic that are very pure and it looks like powder. Like it’s very, very fine. It’s very, very small. It’s white color and it looks really like some kind of powder. It really reminds of, you know, powder that you put on your face. And now it makes more sense because you have this powder and then you mix it with everything else and of course blend in and stuff like this, especially if it’s very, very small. So yeah, personal care products. Another big area of microplastics. And the third one is like closet, closet. So any of your clothes, they can be plastic. So we’re talking acrylics, nylon, polyester, polyamides. Yeah, so almost like 60 or 70 % of our old clothes produced right now, they contain or are made of out of plastic.

Adrienne (05:56)
Wow, that’s such a high percentage. my gosh.

yeah, exactly. I mean, there are no regulations on how, if you want to create your clothes with plastic, it’s completely okay. Yeah. And I mean, of course it doesn’t mean that you need to go to your closet and like throw all, away but now that you know you will I would suggest to try and you know when you need something new to try and find something that is not synthetic fibers. Also another thing that is very important for me at least it’s our bed sheets. Yeah right now I have only 100 % organic cotton and first it feels better on your skin and second like no microplastics and you know you spent eight hours in your bed like around eight hours and you’re going to be fully covered in it and you’re going to inhale and it’s going to be right near to your face and stuff like this so if possible yeah no synthetics in your bedshed as well.

Adrienne (06:48)

Okay. Okay. So I feel like that’s a really good one because I can look at the labels and be like, okay, linen, cotton, whatever. But what about for the personal care stuff for makeup, for creams, for toothpaste? What am I looking for? As far as ingredients that are am I more looking for ingredients that are unsafe? Like the ingredient is not going to say microplastics. But what is it going to say that I should be avoiding or what ingredients should I look at that are safe?

Dana (07:29)
So when it comes to microplastic, it’s really hard to say because there are so many different polymer types. I have a list of it somewhere in my highlights, in avoid highlight, but you can also Google it, like what kind of microplastics are used in personal care products. And there are a list of it, lists of it. And yeah, one of the usual ones are polyethylene and the thing that starts with poly. It’s not 100 % microplastic if it starts with poly, but almost all microplastics start with poly.

Adrienne (08:03)
Almost always. Okay.

Okay. Okay. I’ll grab that from your highlights and I’ll put it in the show notes just so that listeners can can go ahead and grab that. So okay, that’s really great. What about when you were talking about kitchen swaps? What about silicone? What have you found with silicone? Because I know that that’s a popular thing to move over to in the kitchen.

Dana (08:24)
So for me, silicon, was something that I couldn’t really understand what it is, because like in general, for you to understand the term plastic, it’s still, it’s not a solid term. Like it’s been given like 100 years ago and you cannot really say what is plastic, what is not. So the term itself is kind of fluid. So when it comes to silicon, it’s considered plastic.
It’s considered plastic and unfortunately it releases microplastics as well. However, from a good side, from a good note, it will release it at a much lower rate than conventional plastic that are made of oil and stuff like this. I mean, it’s not 100 % microplastics free, especially those that are exposed to heat again, but this is a much better choice.

Adrienne (09:22)
Okay, okay, perfect. I know this topic can be so overwhelming and it feels like such a massive topic and can create a lot of like microplastic anxiety, right? And it’s just, we’re all, my audience is mostly busy moms, busy parents. And so what are the simple ways that you see making the biggest difference if we’re going to start somewhere and we’re not ready to overhaul our entire house and sell everything and rebuy a bunch of things either. Where would you suggest that people start? What are some big impact things that we can do that are simple swaps?

Dana (10:00)
For me, the first one is always everything that has to do with takeouts or the single uses that can be replaced by reusable. For example, the plastic water bottles, plastic bottles, they can be easily swapped by reusable bottle and it’s going to save you money in the long term and no microplastics as well. For the takeout, trying to limit your takeout amount of food. And if you have takeout and you eat it at home, I would suggest not heating it in the plastic.

Adrienne (10:27)
In the microwave, okay. Okay.

Dana (10:50)

Yeah, transfer it to a bowl that is made of ceramics or anything that is not plastic and then heat it. Of course, there are so many things that are with plastic and with microplastics right now and it can be easily so be so you can easily feel so anxious about it and worry about it but it will be counter efficient. I always say even in my content like you don’t have to stress yourself out. We still don’t know the full health effects of microplastics so we still need time in order to research this so there’s need to freak out about this. What is the biggest thing that we can do is demand the changes, demand the regulations, because as I said, again, there are no proper regulations about it. So just an example, this is very interesting. When I started doing my first microplastics research that was in Kazakhstan, and we wanted to see the microplastic concentration in the wastewater and what is the removal efficiency, like
before the treatment and after the treatment that this directly goes into our water body to see the concentration. And I found out like the concentration of the microplastics in this wastewater that goes directly into the water body. But I couldn’t understand like, is this number big or small? Is it a good number or no? So I wanted to compare it. And I was trying to find like,
Of course, there are no regulations on that in Kazakhstan. So I couldn’t say like, okay, this is within the limits or not. So I was trying to find, and that was the start of my microplastic research. So of course I didn’t know about what are the regulations in other countries and what are the limits and what are other people saying. And I was trying to find this number or this limit or anything that will tell me like if this number is too high, if it’s too low, is it normal? So I was just trying to find it everywhere and then I realized that this number does not exist. Like there is no limit, there is no regulations, like not only in Kazakhstan, but like in the whole world, like there is no single country that says like the amount of microplastics in the water that goes directly into our water body should be this or lower. Like there is not nothing. So if you discharge like two microplastics per day or like virtually two trillions of microplastics per day is just not going to be regulated. And it’s not going to be even monitored for this. So I was like, what, what’s this happening?

Adrienne (12:59)

Wow. That’s unbelievable. Wow.

Dana (13:23)

Yeah. And yeah. And as I said, yeah, that’s why I’m telling and I’m repeating myself again and again that like microplastics is quite an unregulated topic, unregulated issue.
And like, yeah, the biggest thing that we can do to solve this issue, to solve the microplastics problem is of course to demand these changes and demand these regulations. Yeah. And then we try and limit our plastic exposure and plastic usage, especially single use.

Adrienne (13:33)
Right. OK. Thank you so, so much for that. Where have you seen, as far as foods go and what we’re consuming or water or drinks or different types of food, what have you seen there? Where have you seen high microplastic numbers? What foods have you now kind of decided to avoid because of that?

Dana (14:01)
I wouldn’t say I avoid any of the foods because I don’t know, I don’t think you need to avoid food because of microplastics. What I do, maybe some of the things that I don’t eat is chewing gum because most of chewing gums are just flavored rubber, flavored plastic. Yeah. I don’t know who came up with this idea to make gum out of plastic, but somebody did. I’m not a fan of chewing gum in general, but after learning this fact, was like, okay, I’m not gonna ever chew gum.

Adrienne (14:30)

I’ve even thought about that before. I wonder if there are brands that make gum not out of plastic or rubber. Okay.

Dana (14:47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are.

I think I made a video about this like last month or two months ago. And there’s also a list of like different brands that are creating plastic-free gums. But yeah, they definitely exist. Another thing, yeah, I’m just…

Adrienne (14:52)
I was gonna ask you about seafood because I feel like it I’ve seen you know things pop up on my feet every once in a while That’s like we’ve found microplastics in these sea creatures and then this sea creature eats that one and then we eat that one and it just So have you seen that what are the studies on that?

Dana (15:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m vegetarian, so I forget that meat in seafood is good. So when it comes to seafood, of course, there’s a big amount of microplastics that are found. I think in one study, out of all samples they did, 99 % of their samples of different sea creatures, they found microplastics. it wouldn’t be very surprising for me So, know, in environmental science, we call oceans and water in general, a final sink. So means like all the chemicals and all the pollutions will eventually end up in our oceans, unfortunately. And of course, fish live there and they will be living in this environment.
And when it comes to microplastics, unfortunately, many of the fish species and other marine animals, cannot easily differentiate the plastics between food. It would be a huge problem. with what you said about like one fish is in another fish, it’s bio magnification. So you have like, you know, very small fish that it’s, I don’t know, different. how do you call them? Plankton. But plankton can be easily, they can easily, I forgot the word.
We cannot easily differentiate between the plankton and microplastic and that’s why they will eat a lot of this microplastics alongside with the plankton. And this is one fish and maybe in its life it ate five microplastics, but then comes a bigger fish and it’s five of this fish. So it will be five multiplied by five. So it’s five. And then another bigger fish will eat five of this fish.
and it will be five multiplied by 25. And this is by a magnification, meaning the higher on the trophic chain, then the higher the microplastic concentration will be. So sometimes even when it comes to microplastics in seafood, some scientists say at least try to eat those species that are on the lower level of trophic chain. it’s at least lower amount of microplastics.
So yeah, the lower it is, the lower the microplastic concentration is. But yeah, another thing, another like a fun fact, I think by 2050, if I’m not mistaken, there will be more microplastics particles than there are fish in our oceans.

Adrienne (17:39)

my gosh, that’s so awful to think about. Because as you were saying, water is life. It’s all we have, right? And our oceans should be such a top priority, and they’re just not. Just like you said, the final sink, and it’s just this dumping ground for soaps, for cleaners, for garbage right for pollution all of that just ends up in our oceans. my gosh that’s horrendous.

Dana (18:21)
Thank you.

Yes.

Adrienne (18:23)
What about water? I was gonna ask you about water. do you, are there any particular methods that you find, like should everyone have a water filter? Should it be the kind that you have in the fridge like a British should it be one that’s attached to the faucet? Should it be I’ve seen like osmosis all those different methods. Are there any ones that you feel in particular that you’ve found are more efficient than others?

Dana (19:01)
Personally, but maybe because I live in Europe right now and have more or less strict regulations when it comes to water. So I don’t filter my water at all. just drink tap water. Well, in Kazakhstan, we have this big filters, not in every apartment. Like for each apartment complex, we have this filter for each apartment complex, which is very convenient because you don’t need to splurge on your filter, especially if you’re renting your apartment. So you have this huge filter for the apartment complex and it’s great. And I don’t think that every country for people in every country they need, it will be very geographically specific, country specific, or even city specific because in different cities there can be different water quality. Yeah, so I think it’s very dependent. But if you think that you need a filter, especially the one that is good in removing microplastics, I would go for those that are not made of plastic, obviously. Like for example, Brita filters, they are usually plastic. yeah, so I mean, maybe it’s good in removing other particles, but other chemicals, but if you’re specifically targeting microplastic, maybe it’s not a good choice. I’ve heard of ceramic filters. I don’t think they’re very popular. I think they come from like Brazil or something like this, I may be mistaken. But they’re like ceramic filters and they were tested to be good as microplastics removal method. reverse osmosis is like top best choice of course, but it can be quite expensive.

Adrienne (20:45)
Okay,

okay, I see. Yeah, and well, I wanted to get into that a little bit, because I think for so many people, they’re making decisions based on their wallet. so, right, plastic options are often cheaper. Plastic clothing made of synthetic materials can often be cheaper instead of, you know, buying your kid a $100 linen dress, what is your advice to people who are still trying to budget and save and spend consciously? Where can they make the greatest impact if they’re on a limited budget and they have, you know, four kids and they can’t maybe afford all of the more expensive things? Because glass tends to be more expensive, steel tends to be more expensive, often bamboo or whatever. so either I think people often buy just because they’re unaware. And so there’s just so much plastic out there. And so we just buy it without thinking. Or two, it’s a budget conscious option and buying the more natural materials can be more expensive. So what do you suggest there?

Dana (21:57)
I mean, of course, if you cannot afford it, then you cannot do anything. So I would suggest not to stress yourself out in that sense, but still demand changes, demand regulations is very important. If you cannot vote with your dollar, at least vote for those parties that are having like green regulations in their mind and stuff like this.
Another thing, maybe a good advice is trying to find all of those things secondhand. It depends of course on the country, on the availability and stuff like this, but I think in most developed countries, you can find budget friendly, but not plastic versions of different things. Yeah.

Adrienne (22:26)

Well, and I think that’s such a good point, because I think in general, if we just stop buying things altogether, right, and your first choice, just don’t buy it, your second choice to buy secondhand or used or trade or whatever or fix upcycle, all these different options before having to buy new. Like, it’s just, yeah, we have to go through all these other channels first and see where we can save money or trade with people or right there. like donations. I know you talk about that a lot and how we often think like, well, where we have all these things, we’re just going to donate them. It’s going to make me feel really good. And I’m going to go out and replace my whole wardrobe with new things. And where do all those donations go?

Dana (23:25)
That was actually my mindset before. I was like, I’m going to donate the clothes that I don’t want or I don’t need, and I’m going to just buy new ones and that’s going to, you know, somehow make it work. But then I realized it’s not, it’s not the way it works actually. Yeah.

Adrienne (23:26)

Yeah, well, and I think the percentage of donations that actually end up being re-bought is so low. They mostly end up in landfills or overseas and in Africa. And you’ve seen videos of these piles and piles of donations. It’s really, yeah, so heartbreaking. And so I think wrapping our heads around this idea of just not buying in the first place is so much more important than buying this new material or that new material, but not buying in the first place, then trying to look for used or well-loved or whatever after that. Okay, what else have we not covered? Is there anything else you wanted to share with us just for parents who are overwhelmed and stressed, but they’re trying to make a difference. They wanna lead a slow conscious lifestyle, they want to live more sustainable. Is there anything else you wanted to add from your studies, from what you’ve learned, changes that you’ve made that have made a really big impact? Anything else you want to leave us with?

Dana (24:41)
So I think one of the things that I want to, for people to understand is, and why I kind of love the microplastics topic is that you can make a change. Like it’s not a thing that you cannot influence in any way. I mean, even swapping one like plastic water bottle can literally save you from 200,000 of microplastics. Yeah, again chopping board is also like counts in the millions of microplastics particles being saved. So you need to have this in mind that every time you make a swap, you literally save yourself from millions to billions of microplastics that goes into your body or goes into your environment or both. So yeah, you can really make a difference in this. Another thing that also cheers me up,
It’s the conversation I had with one guy who has a startup about he has this equipment that is removing microplastics from the environment. And what he told me is like, we, for the first time ever, this is like a very historical moment right now when we spotted the problem before it became a very huge issue that we cannot do anything about.

So for example with climate change, we realized about the climate change a bit late and of course there’s still time to do something about it and of course we still have to do a lot of things. But with microplastics, we’re really like in the historical moment of it all. We really make a difference right now if we will come up with the solutions, come up with good equipment and of course good proper regulations, we can really save the planet from microplastic pollution, from microplastics problem. So I think it’s really cool to study this topic and to see how it develops very, very rapidly, to be honest, compared to, for example, what I did two years ago. And right now it’s like a huge difference.

Adrienne (26:25)

Wow, that’s so great. Well, it’s because we have people like you that are right, like doing this research, getting it out to people to actually, you know, want to help and want to make a difference. And I really love that you mentioned that even those tiny swaps make such a big difference because microplastics are so tiny and so microscopic that we don’t even realize but you can actually make that big difference. So I love that so much. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I will link your Instagram in the show notes. I know that you have a capsule wardrobe guide and you have all that helpful information in your highlights about swaps and everything. So I’ll link that all in there. but thank you so much. And Kazakhstan that is on my bucket list to visit. I keep hearing just such great things about it and it’s not overtaken by tourists or anything yet, but I really want to visit.

Dana (27:39)
We have a lot of space. Our country is super big and we have only 20 million people. yeah, if time and if you come, please text me. I’ll arrange everything,

Adrienne (27:45)

Okay, perfect. Okay, thank you so much.

Dana:

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me.