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Summary

In this episode, Adrienne shares her transformative experience with psychedelic therapy using MDMA. She discusses her journey leading up to the session, the preparation involved, and the profound insights gained during the therapy. Adrienne reflects on her emotional processing, the challenges of trauma, and the unique benefits of psychedelic therapy compared to traditional methods. She emphasizes the importance of feeling safe and supported throughout the experience and concludes with thoughts on the value of such therapy for personal growth and healing.

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Read the Transcript:

Adrienne (00:00.918)
Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. I wanted to do an episode about my psychedelic therapy session. Over the weekend, I had a session with two therapists using MDMA and I talked about it on my Instagram account and I just wanted to kind of talk about my experience and describe the session and

let you my thoughts and feelings about it for any of those who are interested. So last year, I watched a documentary called DOSED which is a fabulous documentary. And it follows a woman in the East side of Vancouver, where I grew up when I was little. And she, you know, was on quite a number of drugs. She calls herself a trash junkie and

attended this facility and the center where they detoxed her to then be able to use psilocybin because psilocybin was ineffective because she had she was still addicted to all these other drugs. And so they used Ibogaine to help her detox from heroin, a bunch of other things. And that center I then contacted them, you know, and talked to them about

doing a psychedelic assisted session with them. And it was a very, very scary experience for me because it’s not legal where I live. You know, it’s cash under the table and you don’t know their address and there’s not a lot of information about them online, but I saw them from this documentary. And so, and I was at a point where I was like, something needs to happen. Something needs to change.

I have way too much trauma. I’ve been doing therapy for way too long and it’s just not getting me where I need to go. And so, you know, the night before I, well, so first of all, I had to do a year of therapy leading up to that. They generally make sure that you are not desperate, that you’re in a mental state and like have the wherewithal to be able to go through an experience like this. And they, it’s also very important that you have a safe and trusting relationship with.

Adrienne (02:22.038)
the therapist so you build that up over time. anyway, thousands of dollars in and hours and I went over to Vancouver and Joe and the kids were at home and I rarely leave them. So already I’m getting anxious, anxious about traveling. I’m in a hotel, it’s a weird place. I take my CBD and THC chocolate that I always use to sleep and it immediately puts me in this like hyper paranoid state that I’m going to be the next victim and on an episode of Dateline.

and that these people, because they don’t, you you don’t drive to them, they pick you up from their hotel and they bring you to their home. And I was like, my God, these people are going to kill me and abduct me and murder me and no one will know where I am. And so I texted them and I was like, hey, I am like all of a sudden feeling super anxious and I don’t want to do this right now. So I need you to wait. And so they waited. I had Joe and the kids come over. took the ferry and they picked me up.

and brought me and they stayed in the neighborhood in vicinity. They met the people and I was like, okay, now I can have this experience. I took a very, very, very small dosage of DMT 5-MeO and puked it up right away. So there was no experience. There was this massive lead up to this thing. I immediately got queasy and just like threw it all up within minutes and

you know, they had told me that a lot of people throw up and it’s a part of like your body releasing trauma and getting it out. But he was like, no, in this case, like, because it happened so quickly, it was like very apparent that your body was rejecting the substance. So then I, you know, didn’t even think about it for four months and a really long time. And I talked to the therapist afterward.

a different therapist and she was like, Adrian, have you ever taken a break from therapy? Like when was the last time you took a break? And I was like, I don’t like never, I don’t take breaks from therapy because that’s what you’re supposed to do. And she was like, I really feel called to tell you that if you want to take a break, you absolutely should. In that time, so that was like January of last year, up until, you know, this, sorry.

Adrienne (04:47.392)
January of this year and I took a break until about September and I contacted her again and I was like, hey, I don’t know what to tell you, but my body is telling me that it is ready to have this experience with you, not with DMT, but with MDMA, which is like a very, very light, it’s ecstasy for those of you who don’t know. I grew up Mormon, I have no familiarity with like any kinds of alcohol or recreational drugs.

I have very little experience with anything like that. I, you know, take my chocolate, which is very, very mild. And I essentially just take it to sleep and calm down my anxiety and ADHD at night so I can get sleep. but I, you know, don’t do anything recreationally. I never did growing up and I, she had told me about MDMA and how it

was developed and used not as a recreational drug originally, but for those who had PTSD. And I don’t know how to explain it, but my body just was like, you need to call her and have this experience, your body’s ready to have this experience. And I get very triggered by any language like that about being called to do something.

growing up Mormon, that language was always used and it was always used in a way of like, that’s the spirit and that’s God and it’s not your own intuition. It’s, know, from this external source. And it always sounded really like, I just, yeah, I just have a lot of trauma and his religious trauma with, with the Mormon church. And so, but I definitely something inside of my body was like, you are prepared to have this experience and you’re like,

welcome to have this experience. That’s what I was feeling. So I called her and I was like, Hey, we need to set this up immediately. And we did three sessions beforehand with her and another therapist over zoom. cause it, again, it’s really important that you feel safe and that there’s that, you know, deep level of trust there. And they came to my home, Friday morning and we just sat and had some tea and I took some

Adrienne (07:00.226)
supplements like ginger and vitamin C and different things that were going to help me with taking the MDMA. And we just sat and chatted for a little bit until I told them that I was ready. And I, you know, had it my home, in my bed, in my room, which is a very safe place for me and very calming. And they were both seated there off the bed.

And I took it, put some headphones on and turned my voice messaging thing on on my phone and just closed my eyes. And within an hour, I’d say 45 minutes to an hour, I told them that I remember this very vividly, but I was like, I feel like I melting. Like my brain, is, everything is very warm and I am like melting into the bed. And she’s like, okay, so that’s it kicking in and.

I was like, I don’t feel good. And immediately I was like, no, this is going to be such a waste. And the first experience was so traumatizing and I hated it so much. And I felt like a failure and I had to do a lot of therapy around that experience being a failure, quote unquote failure. And I started to feel queasy. And then I was like, can you come hold my hand? And it was

wonderfully cold and she put one hand on my forehead and held one hand which was really helpful for grounding and like grounding me so that I didn’t feel so dizzy and nauseous and like the room was spinning and and she we did a dose of 120 so she usually starts people at 150 but I had told her about my experience and I said let’s start at 120 milligrams

And I told my body, I was like, you’re okay. Like, thank you for protecting me. We’re welcoming the substance into our body. You’re okay. You’re okay. Like over and over. You don’t need to puke. You don’t need to reject this. This is safe. You’re safe. And I just like talked myself through it. And I was like, I asked her, like, is it going to be like this for the six to eight hours session? Because if it is, I am not interested. I hate this feeling. And she was like, no, no, this is the peak.

Adrienne (09:17.356)
Like it’s hitting your body and it will calm down. And so that was about 45 minutes in. And then by the time an hour hit, I like all of that passed. And I definitely, I sat up and I was, you’re like clear, like you were there and present and aware. Like I could have answered the door and that would have been fine. You just have this like feeling in your body and in your brain.

And what’s happening, like you are getting flooded with all these happy hormones like oxytocin and serotonin and stuff. And so you definitely feel that like warm hug. I don’t know how else to describe it, but it’s like a literal and figurative hug around your body that you are just warm and cozy and safe.

and it kind of shuts off your amygdala and blocks those fear responses, those anxiety responses. For the next eight hours, I didn’t stop talking. So Joe has a voice message that I sent to him of me talking straight for eight hours. And they asked me like, hey, do you want us to engage with you? Like, do you want us to talk with you?

beforehand and I just kind of said like, no, just let me really control the room and the environment and I, you know, maybe I’ll sleep the whole time. I don’t know. And just kind of follow my lead. And I remember multiple times in the session saying, I can’t stop talking. Like you’re gonna have to tell me when it’s time for you guys to go because I will just keep talking apparently and I felt like I was having this out of body experience where I was looking in on myself.

looking at my mouth moving and my brain just like sending things to my mouth. And that’s all that was coming out for eight hours, which is quite amazing. I mean, you all know that I can talk forever and I can talk a lot. So that’s, guess, not that abnormal. But what the drug allowed me to do was talk about this trauma without my body reliving it.

Adrienne (11:31.688)
It allowed me to stay focused and present. like shut off my ADHD and shut off my anxiety so that I wasn’t bouncing all over the place and that I wasn’t getting distracted and I wasn’t getting bored and I wasn’t looking for these different dopamine hits or whatever. And I’ve never been able to be present for eight hours for that long. I have never been able to talk about my trauma for that long because I get activated and I get dysregulated and my body is like.

you know, after an hour of therapy, it’s like, yeah, you’re good. You can stop now. Just don’t, we can’t handle this anymore. And my body can’t tell that I’m not actually reliving those experiences, right? Like it is my blood pressure, my pulse, my brain, my fight or flight, all of that is assuming that we are going through the same trauma that we were going through when we were younger or older.

I have trauma from when I was older too. But what the drug allowed me to do was talk about it and process it and have my body like have it come out of my body without being completely, for lack of a better term, be paralyzed mentally, emotionally, psychologically, physically. So that was pretty amazing.

The first words that came out of my mouth, so I have read some of her notes. She took notes the whole time, which was fabulous. She said I should turn it into a memoir or a Netflix special. So I have definitely thought about that before. And I’ve also thought about the ramifications and the consequences and how it would basically destroy every relationship that I have with family and different people. And so I’m not quite there yet.

but I do have a number of people who have told me they would absolutely buy that book and watch that Netflix special. But the first sentence I said was, why did my mom hate me so much?

Adrienne (13:41.116)
which was difficult to reread. Because I definitely know I’m in a place of like, I’m not chasing my mom’s love anymore. I don’t value her or respect her or admire her. so I don’t actually like consciously, my conscious brain is like, you don’t need that love. You don’t even want that relationship.

which definitely used to be a place of denial and anger and like, wait, but I really do on the inside, really just want her to love me and why can’t she love me? I do really feel like I’ve gotten to a place where I’m like, that’s okay. That relationship’s not happening. I don’t want a relationship there. I am not invested in that relationship anymore, but that is what came out of my mouth at first.

which I think, you know, was really my, I definitely felt like the narrator on Friday was mostly my inner child talking and just saying, like, I don’t understand, like, why I was so young, I was so innocent, all I wanted was to be loved, you know, all that stuff kind of coming out. I definitely have.

I haven’t re listened to my memo yet, but I definitely know I went off about colonialism and white supremacy and child liberation and the church and burning it all to the ground. And, you know, that kind of talk. but as Joe has listened to it and as the therapists have told me, it was all very like coherent, very connected, very, it gives you this, gave me the ability in that eight hours.

to look at my entire life and being and trauma as one whole, you know, interwoven interconnected web, which I’m capable of doing because my sessions are just kind of one-offs and it’s just, you know, even though I’m going in there every week or every month or whatever, it’s just kind of pulling from this Pandora’s box and you know, you talk about it for 50 minutes and then it’s over and then I’m just left with like, okay, well now I feel still really shitty and that didn’t really help me do anything.

Adrienne (16:05.59)
Whereas this kind of gave me, my therapist uses this example as like you live your whole life on the bottom floor of this apartment building and then you have the psychedelic experience and you’re at the top floor and you’re able to see everything around you. So you’re still in that apartment building, you’re still in your body, it’s still you, but your entire vantage point is just so different and so much.

more involved and full and you can see like, like that’s what’s going on over there. And that’s what happened here. And it’s all connected. And the way I kind of saw it was like, I don’t know, almost, yeah, coming out of the woods. And you’re at this level where you’re like looking around and all the trees look the same and you’re kind of lost and everything’s the same. But then you come up out of the forest and you’re looking down from this aerial perspective. So that’s like,

I don’t know my best explanation of it. I’m in like kind of a weird state now where I’m still coming down off of the MDMA. So definitely be prepared for that. You crash pretty hard and I needed, I still need, you know, about a week of like not parenting. was, I laid in bed for three straight days after.

and only got up to get door dash. But definitely felt woozy and nauseous and just like my body being like, yep, that was enough. That was too much. We’re shutting down now. So it’s Wednesday now. So I’m a little bit out of that like murky kind of foggy woozy period, but I’m definitely still not, you know, myself.

I thought it was really cool that I was in the menstrual part of my phase during the session. I just felt like that wasn’t planned and I just felt like that aligned very nicely in this phase where I’m supposed to be resting and not doing anything and journaling and being reflective and leaning into that. So I really, really liked that experience to tie to that as well.

Adrienne (18:25.748)
I was, they’re definitely right when they talk about it as a truth serum, because there was no stopping what was coming out of my mouth. And I talked about, you know, different experiences that I had forgotten about growing up. I definitely was felt very free to talk about Joe and men and like different things that I might have filtered. So it really removed that filter.

and just felt very raw and powerful, but not vulnerable. I think that’s what is so different is that I have opened up and been raw before. but it felt, it feels so vulnerable because you’re, you’re raw and you’re emotional and it’s like, people are cracking you open, but this was like, you’re getting cracked open, but in the safest most gentlest like unicorn fairy tale, Arendelle.

kind of way, where you’re just like, like it’s just, I don’t even know how to explain it. But just, it’s so peaceful and so safe and so trusting and so okay that all these things coming out are not scary. Even though I was talking about like scary, disturbing, sadistic, harmful things.

I’m doing it in a way that is just so clear and so like objective and so void of anxiety and hurt and pain and hate and resentment and anger. Although anger that is that is a really good one because I do remember saying I feel so angry about this. And it felt like this very healthy anger but I didn’t

physiologically feel anger and rage like I do when I talk about it, not on MDMA. I definitely feel like I have done 10 years of therapy in eight hours. It was $1,600. So for those of you asking, it was 800 per therapist and that included the price of the drugs for yeah, like an eight to 10 hour day with them.

Adrienne (20:52.694)
But when I look back on like how much money I have spent on therapy, it really just is a drop in the bucket. And when I think of all the work that I was able to do in that one day time and the like enlightenment I was able to have and the clarity and the growth just within that short of amount of time, like it is…

Cause at first, my first comment to them, was like, it’s so unfair. Like only rich people can afford to get help. And that’s so ridiculous. And while that is very much still true, if you’re, if you have the ability to pay for therapy, as I do, it has definitely been a better investment for me to do a psychedelic assisted therapy session. and just because of its efficacy.

and I, it’s just something that has been so worth it to me, even though I’m only a few days out of it because…

of all the pain and suffering and like paralysis that I go through with my weekly therapy. And all the time and energy that I spend leading up to therapy sessions and then coming down off of therapy sessions and feeling like I’m making little to no progress. Although, sorry, that’s not giving therapy enough credit. Definitely have made progress. But with this, it is like,

so much further, so much more efficient and in such a different way that I’ve been able to tackle this trauma. I definitely felt like I wasn’t versing my trauma like I usually do. I was talking about it in a way that very much wasn’t my enemy, but just…

Adrienne (22:54.422)
this is a lived experience and yes, it’s unfair and yes, it was unjust and yes, all these things happened to me but it didn’t feel like I was antagonistic against my trauma. I definitely talked about how amazing I was which never ever, ever happens. I kept noting that in the experience being like, my gosh and laughing and being like, I’m so sorry but I like my body, I like can’t stop what I’m saying right now and I’m

I really like that I do this or really like that I am this way. And I talked about how great my parenting was and all these things that are so unlike me. And so that was really great just to be in a spot where for eight hours, I loved myself quite radically. And for that experience alone, I would do it again.

Adrienne (23:51.776)
I also think it would be so amazing to do it with a partner. Like if Joe and I did it together, I had that thought just about how many things could come out and how many things we could talk about and be so much more productive in our conversations when there isn’t fear and anxiety, know, and hurt and pain and all of that, where we’re just talking from a place of like clarity and love and peace.

something that came up, I said beforehand, like, I don’t want to have this experience if I’m just going to feel all forgiving to these people. Like I have no desire to think about all these people that caused me serious harm and be like, it’s okay. I’m just going to be Christ-like and love and forget and forgive. And I was like, not into that idea at all. And so I was quite thrilled.

when that wasn’t the case. And I was able to just look at them with I don’t know, like this neutrality, I don’t really know the word, but I was able to talk about it and talk about them and see them and hold these like multiple truths. Like I talked about my mom and just was able to be like, yeah, she didn’t have access to therapy. She was married to someone who hated her.

she was married to someone who was never around. She had undiagnosed postpartum depression, like all of these things that in the past have been me either like trying to make excuses for her or defend her or even see her, you know, in a compassionate light. But I was able to do that with like it just being neutral and it being like, this was just the reality for her, the end, not like, I love her so much more now, or it just, you know,

give gave me a better understanding and just I was able to be in a place of holding those really difficult contradicting truths at the same time. And those were able to like live inside me and then come out and just sit there. And having that eight hours to just lean into that and sit with those things was yeah, truly remarkable. What else I definitely raged against the church.

Adrienne (26:11.274)
and against oppressive systems and all of that. But in a way, again, that was neutral in the sense that I wasn’t up here and activated up here and just filled with the hate and rage and anger and heat and like unable to talk because I’m so angry. But I was able to just like, I don’t know. It was like,

laying out all your cards on a table, or it was like looking at yourself naked in front of a mirror, but in the best way, not in like a, my God, that’s so, whatever kind of way, like I do sometimes, but in a way that was just like, this is, this is it. This is me. This is my brain. This is my life. This is my reality. Ta-da. And not like,

with moral judgments associated with it necessarily. What else? I, some very vulnerable things came up about like, I think I had kids to fill a void. And it was so nice to just say that without shame and just say it with like, I know that that wasn’t the right reason to have kids.

And I acknowledge that and that is the reality. And not like, and that’s okay, or that’s not okay, but just it is, it just is. And so a lot of things like that came up of like,

just these are statements or like facts without always having to tie tons of emotion to it. So that was really helpful. And yeah, I will say to be prepared to crash or again, you don’t need to prepare for anything. This was just my experience, but that night I was definitely, cause it’s a stimulant.

Adrienne (28:23.092)
ecstasy is and so I had to prepare for the fact that I like was not going to go to sleep and my brain was buzzing and my body was exhausted so I took some extra chocolate just to be able to fall asleep because I was so so dead and for the three days after that I was laying in bed I was really depressed and really sad and not suicidal in the way that I’ve been suicidal before

but in a way that was like, what are we doing? Like, what are humans doing? We are destroying each other. The world is on fire. Why is there so much hate in the world? Like that existential crisis kind of despair feeling was what I got. And so I definitely made sure to like call Joe a lot and have people check in on me and my sister-in-law come over and keep me from spiraling.

So it was definitely, had to toe that line of like leaning into what my body was feeling and not spiraling into scary abyss darkness either. And taking some precautions of having certain supplements there that I took afterwards and making sure that I had social check-ins and stuff like that.

Adrienne (29:48.852)
I definitely feel much more connected to myself than I ever have and much more connected to humans and the earth and the universe. Another thing I said before I went into the session was like, if I’m going to be shown that it is some cis straight hetero white male God, like I was taught in the church growing up, I’m going to be so upset. I’m not interested in having this experience.

Thank goodness that was not my experience or the case, but definitely this like feeling of there is something bigger than myself as after leaving the church, I have become very atheist. And I definitely got to a place where I was like, okay, it’s okay. There is something bigger than this life. We are all connected.

we are all good, like we’re all energy, we’re all made of energy and all that energy is connected and we’re going to go back to where we came from. And it is going to feel good and restful and peaceful. And I just felt really good about dying. No, I felt really good about just like acknowledging that there is a greater presence and that it doesn’t have to be this.

Jesus figure puppeteering everything like I was taught to believe growing up. So I definitely felt more at peace with my place here on earth. Definitely felt like I am connected to this earth and the people in it. And that I have this meaning for being here and just part of this tapestry, I don’t know, being a thread in.

like human tapestry. It’s really hard to explain and now I understand like when other people talk about their experiences with psychedelics. It’s really hard to understand because I’m just like, you’re not making any sense right now. I don’t understand the words that you’re using. I don’t understand the emotions that you’re trying to get me to understand or feel. And so I very much recognize that this episode is probably mostly like that. But it’s

Adrienne (32:11.582)
It’s like trying to use words to describe this experience that words just don’t accurately describe it. Or we don’t have the language for it, which I don’t know, it’s kind of nice. I kind of like the idea that we don’t know everything and we can’t minimize everything into words. And that, don’t know.

I was very much like feeling music and feeling color and feeling like I could feel blood in my veins. And the best way that I can describe it is like, Miss Frizzle on the school bus getting really small and being in there. And so every bite that I took, could like feel my teeth.

and my saliva and my tongue and I could feel it getting digested. It was like very trippy, but not trippy. That’s kind of what I want to say too. Like I haven’t done psilocybin, I microdose, but not to the point where I’m like tripping. And those people are very much like, you’re, you know, you’re feeling color or like seeing music or whatever. Not like that. It just is like.

to a very, very minimal degree. Like I am fully conscious. I did not have to like succumb to anything or like let myself get taken on this trip or see hallucinations or like any of that kind of stuff. I wasn’t getting taken anywhere for sure. That’s how I’ve always heard it described and that is not.

what MDMA was like. MDMA is very much like you’re present. You can have coherent conversations and you are very much there. And it’s just a different state. And you are like more in touch with your inner self and your psyche and your inner healer is going to do that work. So there was nothing that I was consciously doing. My body was like, okay, perfect. The door has been opened. We are going to start healing ourselves. And

Adrienne (34:28.434)
me talking for eight hours straight apparently was like part of that process which I think will be different obviously for everyone but that was my experience. Anyway I’m not going to share all eight hours of what came to me during that time but that was kind of the gist of the experience and it is as

much as I’ve tried to describe it, it’s also really indescribable and it is so unique and subjective to everyone. But all in all, it was a delightful experience. I highly recommend it to anyone that feels like that is something for them. I don’t think it would have gone quite as well if I was coming to it in a different state. Like if I was…

very anxious or if I was doing it because Joe was like, Adrian, this would be so good for you. Like it, definitely felt like I needed to come to it from a very peaceful, regulated state and a very like, you know, embracing all of this other stuff in my life to get to a place where I am not, my brain is not.

a squirrel on cocaine as it often is with my ADHD. So before this year, I would say that squirrel on cocaine was there 24 seven and now I’ve really been able to get to a place just from like setting boundaries, saying no, know, embracing minimalism.

limiting my calendar, all of these things that took everything down 10 notches, I credit microdosing also for a lot of that, which is just trumes in little capsules that I do two days on and two days off. I feel like that took everything down a whole bunch of levels without numbing me. I’ve tried ADHD meds before and it very much felt like it was taking away everything about myself.

Adrienne (36:41.023)
my creativity and stuff like that, whereas microdosing, feel like not only has it helped with my anxiety and like calm my ADHD down, but it also has increased my creative flow, which is like quite amazing. So yeah, let me know if you have any questions.

I am, my DMs are open on Instagram and I’ll do an, you know, ask me anything about the experience of my stories, but I just wanted to be able to rawly and freshly just share everything about my experience that I can think of in this episode as well. So anyway, that’s all. And I have, I wanted to mention, I have a story in my highlights. No.

I have a highlight on my Instagram about psychedelic assisted therapy and I have recommended certain podcasts, I’ve recommended certain documentaries and different things and we’ll share this experience there as well. So if you are looking for any further information about it, that’s where it is on Instagram and this episode will air soon.

you’ll have this episode as well. take care. No, and you’ll have this episode as well. So there you go. Okay, next time. Bye bye.